Because I still can’t bear the ending of 4X13.

[preserved_ginger]

[Poll #1221112]

Comments

[jess-squirrel.livejournal.com]

Gah, I have no idea. Just the question makes my head hurt. :P

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

Just the question makes my head hurt.

Sorry *hugs*

Fandom in general seems so quick to accept the ending of 4X13 that it hurts, y’know? I read somewhere that those of us who are new to Who and love Rose (and therefore see things more from her POV) are more likely to accept the resolution of 4X13 than those of us who are old-timers and love the Doctor (and therefore see things more from his POV).

I just wanted to test the theory (besides which, my temper is threatening to get the better of me on the subject and I needed the distraction.)

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

I very much see things from his perspective, and purely from that perspective that ending stings like a mother. Although if you don't take the Donna situation into account, I think this puts him in a closer frame of mind to what he would've been like if when he'd first sent Rose away to Pete's World she'd simply stayed there.

He had control in that situation, and he had control in this one. He chose to walk away - my real question is, if it weren't for the existence of Ten II, what would he have done?

[maniacalshen.livejournal.com]

if it weren't for the existence of Ten II, what would he have done?

This.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

This... as in what? You've given me no context. Do you mean the same thing he did anyway?

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

Do you mean the same thing he did anyway?

That was my reading of it, aye.

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

I think he might have tried, given what his mental state might've been if his had just been forced into doing what Ten II did in the story, but I don't think Rose would have let him.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

but I don't think Rose would have let him.

No, neither do I. And frankly I don’t think she’d have let him leave her with not-him, either, had she had even half a chance.

[maniacalshen.livejournal.com]

Lol, no. When you reply with "This," it's sort of the same thing as replying with "iawtc."

In other words, I've wondered the same thing myself and have possibly lost sleep over it. >_> That's what I get for watching the episode so shortly before I was supposed to sleep that night. Though that was work's fault.

I don't think he would have abandoned her on the beach if 10.5 wasn't there. Frankly, I don't think she would have let him.

[jess-squirrel.livejournal.com]

I think the fact that I can't really form proper sentences right now has something to do with it, lolz. I stayed up far too late last night and even coffee has failed me this morning. :P

Yeah...I know what you mean. And it does hurt. And I don't know who is more likely to accept it. I think maybe the group that is least likely to accept it love the Doctor & Rose as a pair. As a couple. It's not that I don't love them to death apart, because I really do. But when they were together...it was the cutest and best thing that I've ever seen in DW so far. The finale is hard to accept for me because it kinda feels like RTD cheated us. It's kinda happy but extremely depressing because it's not right. Well, it is, but it isn't at the same time.

I'm so confused.

I'm sorry people are upsetting you. *HUGS*

[principia-coh.livejournal.com]

Of the listed groups, what I said in the poll stands, but overall? Anyone who didn't ship that particular pair, or the Girl Cooties Brigade.

Given the narrative restrictions placed on what they could do, and RTD's notorious reluctance for putting a firm 'CASE CLOSED' stamp on any of the long-term companions, this is kinda what some of us had been figuring might become the 'happy' ending even just after LotTL.

There's definitely some better ways the could have handled it (particularly Donna's ending: couldn't they have just had him pull out the relevant section and said the energies involved in TARDIS travel would've reawakened the Time Lordiness and therefore she couldn't travel with him any more, but she still had her memories?), but the other likely alternative would've been coming back at Christmas to Ten laying flowers at Rose's grave and then returning from the PW to N-Space.

[karenor.livejournal.com]

I have no idea. I can only speak for myself. And myself doesn't really belong in any of those categories. I love the ship above all else. I didn't want it to be destroyed. In some ways it has. In some ways it hasn't.

Would I have preferred a different ending? Fuck yeah. I can think of a couple that would have worked within the parameters of the show. But oh well.

[usaku.livejournal.com]

I'm with Rachel in that I feel the New!Who fans that love the Doctor best are the ones most upset. Admittedly, I don't wander outside any groups of Who fandom except D/R communities on LJ. But anyway, I think that for those of us who have grown with Nine and Ten only may see the Doctor differently, more vulnerable or emotional than those more familiar with his previous incarnations. I'm not happy with the idea that we see this growth in his character these seasons, and now we're faced with the prospect that he's back to zero. I need to see the next canon piece to know if I'm going to be happy with how this works out. I also wish, like everyone else, that there'd be a special just for Blue/Rose because I need to know that Brown's actions weren't in vain.

The Doctor, I think, got hosed the most here, for the same reasons Rachel said. I also thought the ideal scenario would be something like we saw the Doctor accepting Rose's death after a happy life with her that was implied inbetween series. But, that would have required re-writing JE completely because the Daleks made everyone useless except Doctor!Donna.

[thehornedgod.livejournal.com]

I can't really process the poll, but I think the ending was probably even harder on Doctor-focused people than Rose-focused or ship-focused or even Donna-focused people. Rose may be able to make things work with Cyril Destiny, Donna may well be able to find another catalyst for her awesome and was always fabulous whatever fandom says, but the Doctor... I think he's in a worse place than he was in Rose, The Runaway Bride, Voyage of the Damned... I don't know how he'll even get himself in a fit state to take another companion, but hopefully Russell will cover that in 2009 because I don't trust Moffat to do it. Russell's has been an uncompromisingly bleak vision.

[ladyofgallifrey.livejournal.com]

I read jess' post as I was starting to leave my response. What she said. The question made my head hurt so I answered "Other" and here's my explanation:

Yes, I'm a "NewWho" - I first fell in love with 9, then 9/R, then Rose, then DT - oops, sorry, 10, then 10/R and have been there ever since. I kinda can't separate them, but I will say that what has broken my heart more than the (bad word) idea of Rose just dashing off to shag humanTen (cuz I'm not buying that) is that the Doctor turned away from a chance to know some happiness, which is what I was HOPING for ever since I started loving the whole 10/R ship. They need each other. He needs to restore his soul. She is the Bad Wolf. Just can't see them without each other - for this incarnation and her lifetime.

That probably hurts your head more than your original poll hurt mine. Sorry for the babbling.

ETA: I really should read all the posts before I chime in. I saw your further explanation Meg and I was wondering why there seemed to be overwhelming squee over this. I was feeling very much alone with how I saw things - I don't buy this ending. I don't accept altTen or Ten II or whatever you want to call him as The Doctor because He. Is. Not. Him. The whole thing just feels Wrong to me. I'll go back under my rock of denial now.

[effulgent-girl.livejournal.com]

Other: I'm a New Who fan who love both the Doctor and Rose in equal amounts and even more when they're together, and I hate what was done to both of them.

[callistazm.livejournal.com]

I'm a fan who started with NewWho and have since watched lots of OldWho so I believe I count as a fan of both, even though I am a total Ten/Rose shipper.

My take on the finale was quite mixed. At first I loved it completely, then I hated it, now I just like it. It's a very complicated issue. RTD didn't leave us with an easy ending at all because, frankly, an easy ending wasn't possible. He couldn't keep Rose and RealTen together without really complicating things. How could the pair possibly pick up where they left off after the first time on the beach, "I love you" and the "great unfinished sentence"?

Rose would have demanded the rest of that sentence with or without the existence of CloneTen. So, what then? The Doctor can't say it and Rose feels betrayed or the Doctor does say it and it completely and utterly changes the show forever because of course the Doctor just can't be allowed to say that, ever. Apparently.

And of course Russell loves Rose far too much to kill her. He said exactly that in the Confidential for Doomsday: "It is never, ever an option to kill her."

So what did that leave us? This. Not a perfect solution but THE best possible solution for Rose and ultimately for the Doctor as well. RealDoctor never has to worry that Rose is alone and unhappy. He knows she's not and never will be.

Whether or not she can and will accept it, she has exactly what she's always wanted: a real, full life with the man she loves. As much as she loves the RealDoctor, and he loves her, he can never give her that. He knows it and in time she will come to understand it.

In fact, I think she already does. When he said "Does it need saying?" And she just stared at him, I choose to believe she was suddenly realizing he was never, ever going to say it and so when CloneTen DID say it (because we all know he did), she was able to make her choice right then and there and snog the bloody hell out of him. :D

So yeah, life isn't fair. Nobody ever said it was. All things considered, Rose got a damn good deal out of it and I think in time, she'll see it the same way too.