Worth It?

[preserved_ginger]

Title: Worth It?
Character(s): Ten. Mentions throughout of Rose.
Pairing: Ten I/Rose
Rating: 12
Disclaimer: Not mine
A/N: Back to Journey’s End, I’m afraid. Canon compliant, too. Sorry about that.
Spoilers: Journey’s End
Summary: Was it worth it, in the end?

What was the reason you’d given yourself for not allowing Rose to stay with you? Oh, that was it – you’d wanted to keep a part of yourself back, were desperate not to lose yourself in her, because she’d wither and die long before you and you couldn’t bear to watch.

So you pushed her into the arms of the man who is you in every way except the one that matters – and, now you’ll never see her again, is the pain or grief any the less? Of course it isn't.

Was it worth it, in the end?

Was it, really?

Comments

[the-lucky-stars.livejournal.com]

Ooh, this made me hurt for Ten. Lovely writing as always.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

Ooh, this made me hurt for Ten.

That was the intention; good to see it works.

Lovely writing as always.

Thank you!

[rosewarren.livejournal.com]

Someday soon I hope to lose the urge to throttle Ten for acting this way. Love Rose, push her away, lose her. Repeat. Argh.

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

You see, I can't make myself do that, because I can see he's at least partially motivated by self-loathing and thinking he simply doesn't deserve her. I still think at least part of his comments to Ten II are projection of what he really thinks of himself.

The piece is excellent as usual.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

I can see he's at least partially motivated by self-loathing and thinking he simply doesn't deserve her. I still think at least part of his comments to Ten II are projection of what he really thinks of himself.

The more I think about it, the more I agree with this comment. And here was I thinking that Rose had helped him overcome that part of him, to some extent. *sighs*

The piece is excellent as usual.

Thank you!

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

I think Ten is still as damaged as Nine was; it's just that his frentic cheerfulness is a better mask for it. What Davros said to him was the killing blow, because it confirmed what he really thinks about himself.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

Brilliant icon!

I think Ten is still as damaged as Nine was; it's just that his frentic cheerfulness is a better mask for it.

I think you’re right; I’ve been thinking that for quite a while myself. Season Three is a study in just how damaged he (still) is, and Martha (poor Martha) doesn’t seem capable of helping him.

What Davros said to him was the killing blow, because it confirmed what he really thinks about himself.

Yeah, but the thing about Davros is that he’s always been the Doctor’s enemy so is going to be briefing against him; the Doctor is so blinded by the fact that Davros is saying things about him that he wants to hear (the bad stuff) that he fails to realise that in doing so he gives Davros the victory.

Not to mention, of course, that how the Doctor sees himself may not be how (a) anybody else sees him, or (b) how he actually is.

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

Thanks, redscharlach makes them.

It's probably not what he actually is, but imagine Ten hearing an enemy (especially one like Davros) call him out for being essentially immoral. Never mind the hypocracy present; Ten probably just thought that "Even he knows how bad I am." The fact Rose doesn't say anything in response (the fact she was there at all, even) made matters worse.

Can you tell I've thought way too much about this?

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

Thanks, redscharlach makes them.

Cheers for that, will go on a look-see.

It's probably not what he actually is, but imagine Ten hearing an enemy (especially one like Davros) call him out for being essentially immoral. Never mind the hypocracy present; Ten probably just thought that "Even he knows how bad I am." The fact Rose doesn't say anything in response (the fact she was there at all, even) made matters worse.

Is this before or after Rose and the Doctor are in separate pillars of light (which in itself reminds me of the Lonely God metaphor: “let the fiery, cloudy pillar / lead me all my journey through”)?

I personally hold Davros responsible for making Ten do what he does at the end of the episode; without all the vindication of his (self-loathing) thoughts that Davros gave him, I doubt he could have left her.

Can you tell I've thought way too much about this?

Thinking is good :)

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

I think Davros is to blame as well. Whether he meant it or not I have no idea; I just know that Ten took it seriously.

I think it was after the light thing (I'm not watching the episode again to find out) but she still could have said something. In all fairness, she was probably in shock that this guy was trying to say the Doctor is immoral. Anyway, it's not something he would want her to hear.

It's not the thinking; it's that I'm doing it all over a *TV show.* I didn't even watch TV for years until I started Who in May. Now I watch two. It seems incongruous with someone who can read Middle English without slowing down.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

I think Davros is to blame as well. Whether he meant it or not I have no idea; I just know that Ten took it seriously.

From what I know of Davros, he was probably needling Ten, trying to get a reaction of some kind out of him. And I wonder whether that solidified in Ten’s head the Ten II/Rose “solution” thing. I dunno.

I think it was after the light thing (I'm not watching the episode again to find out) but she still could have said something. In all fairness, she was probably in shock that this guy was trying to say the Doctor is immoral. Anyway, it's not something he would want her to hear.

I don’t blame you for not watching it again (it’ll probably take me a while before I can); I agree that it’s not something he’d want her to hear, but I think she’s heard similar before (Dalek Emperor in Parting of the Ways comes to mind).

It seems incongruous with someone who can read Middle English without slowing down.

Ooh, I am jealous (is that Chaucer’s time, or earlier? I can sort of get the gist of Chaucer in The Canterbury Tales (I studied the Prologue for ‘A’-Level), but I’m not in any way an expert).

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

I think it did solidify it. Like I said, his comments are projection as much as anything else, so in his mind this wasn't so much having her heal someone as making sure she got the "good" one.

It is Chaucer. It's not hard when you've read a lot of it. Reading it out loud helps. I flunked out of college myself, so I didn't study it, but I read it on my own anyway.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

I think it did solidify it. Like I said, his comments are projection as much as anything else, so in his mind this wasn't so much having her heal someone as making sure she got the "good" one.

But who’s to say that it is the ‘good’ one she’s getting? What happens, for example, if that version of him got more of the darker side of him and less of the happy parts?

It is Chaucer. It's not hard when you've read a lot of it. Reading it out loud helps. I flunked out of college myself, so I didn't study it, but I read it on my own anyway.

I flunked out of college, too, which when my English teacher (at school) said I had a brain capable of dealing with Oxford University sort of work is not exactly encouraging.

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

That is why I put "good" in quotes. Since he really knows nothing about Ten II, he can only guess. However, I think he was thinking that if Ten II was essentially him with no Time War and not having done everything he did since then he would have to be better.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

However, I think he was thinking that if Ten II was essentially him with no Time War and not having done everything he did since then he would have to be better.

Except that Ten II (that sucks as an alternative name, but the rest suck worse, so *shrugs*) is him with the Time War, and everything that he did between his creation (as One) and the sword-fight with the Sycorax. That doesn’t make him all that much better, if at all, IMHO.

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

I'll clarify I don't think he actually is; just that Ten thinks it. And while he'd use any reason to justify it, it basically comes down to the fact he is full of self-loathing.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

I'll clarify I don't think he actually is; just that Ten thinks it.

Yeah, he does. And that’s infuriating and pitiful, both at the same time.

And while he'd use any reason to justify it, it basically comes down to the fact he is full of self-loathing.

The self-loathing is pretty obvious, isn’t it? Has been since Nine. And I’m wondering what on earth could ever get him to even start to heal from that.

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

If someone wants to write a fixit, that would have to be addressed. I'm tempted to do it myself, although I've only written fanfic years ago, and it was pretty awful. I'm not sure how it can be healed myself.

The saddest thing, in my mind, is that he is trying to do what he thinks is the right thing for the person he loves. And what's worse is that he knows this time it is permanent. It makes me think of "Turn Left" and how he died there because he chose not to regenerate after losing her. (I know the show doesn't say that directly, but it's really implied.) Is he just going to rush into something suicidal? (another thing that could be explored in fic...)

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

If someone wants to write a fixit, that would have to be addressed.

I’m writing a missing-scene-turned-fix-it!fic at the moment, and I think it’s just gone to a point where this is going to get addressed.

And what's worse is that he knows this time it is permanent.

He thinks it’s permanent, but there’s always that voice in the back of his mind that’ll make him wonder if she’ll try to get back to him again. That’ll torture him for a long, long time I think.

It makes me think of "Turn Left" and how he died there because he chose not to regenerate after losing her. (I know the show doesn't say that directly, but it's really implied.) Is he just going to rush into something suicidal? (another thing that could be explored in fic...)

He spent the majority of Season Three being suicidal, IMHO, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he spent the specials being exactly the same (and I’m not sure it would be emotionally honest at all if he wasn’t, if you see what I mean). But I’m worried about Season Five, if I’m honest with you; I don’t know whether I like the person Moffat wants to turn the Doctor into.

[theorclair.livejournal.com]

I don't think he wants her to come back. Ironically, she's the best thing for him at this point - someone who loves him no matter what. But he thinks he doesn't deserve her.

If something lethal happened to him at this point, I don't think he'd regenerate. And if he did it would be a majorly out of character option.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

Someday soon I hope to lose the urge to throttle Ten for acting this way. Love Rose, push her away, lose her. Repeat. Argh.

I’m still trying to get my head around this myself (hence this and other fic). But I think I agree pretty much with what theorclair says on this one.

[maniacalshen.livejournal.com]

:( S3 and S4 had so much WOE for Ten.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

:( S3 and S4 had so much WOE for Ten.

I know! Sometimes it makes me think I should try my hand at writing AU seasons three and four, just to give the fella a little bit of happy.

But then I’m not sure if people would read that, stuff with Rose in where she shouldn’t be.

[nicis-anatomy.livejournal.com]

*sob* This was so sad :( But very well written.

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

*sob* This was so sad :(

I know :( *pets Ten*

But very well written.

Thank you!

[nowcarpediem.livejournal.com]

I liked it, its a good question, which I hope Ten asks himself every minute of every day (sorry, a little upset with him, lol).... and I'd love for a sequel?

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

its a good question, which I hope Ten asks himself every minute of every day (sorry, a little upset with him, lol)

Yeah, I’m a bit upset with what happened too (as I think my post-ep fic pretty much shows); and I’m fairly sure that he does ask himself that. It’s another thing for him to beat himself up about, isn't it?

and I'd love for a sequel?

Now there’s an idea. What would you like to see in a sequel?

[helygen.livejournal.com]

*points up*

What they all said

*sobs*

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

*sobs*

*HUGS*

[caterwolime.livejournal.com]

owie

poor Ten

[bananasandroses.livejournal.com]

owie

Yup :(

poor Ten

And he brought it all on himself, that’s the inexplicable part of this. *hugs him anyway*

[davidsgirl8414.livejournal.com]

Makes me sad not worth it